carny's & circus people are two different animals. you will get your ass beat to a bloody pulp if you ever say that in the wrong context in rl. please be carefull of the insults & wrongfull epiphitafs you hurl @ people like that.However circus people love animals. otherwise they would not seek to master them. ;-)
so even if you give ...( 3 weeks ago by circusboy90210)
so even if you give credence to circus' being cruel which i'm not. you have to admit that for the greater good it's better for the species & planet. ;-)
I stand by my ...( 3 weeks ago by JenayBrooke)
I stand by my comments. Anyone who keeps tigers in small cages only to be let out to perform and keeps elephants confined 24/7 except when they are forced to do stupid tricks through domination is not someone who gives a rat's *ss about the animals.
that's the thing ...( 3 weeks ago by circusboy90210)
that's the thing you right you stand by your comments even if they are based on erroneous information that's cool it's a democracy. but it's not 24/7 & only let out for performances, & not out of total domination. Those animal's receive more vet care than you receive medical attention in your life. your talking out of your ass.
I'm not advocating ...( 3 weeks ago by Jayfurluvsya)
I'm not advocating torture or cruelty. I know the circus is evolving and adapting along with the rest of society. They replace staff that breaks rules and they are constantly researching training techniques that revolve around positive reinforcement. The same techniques that are used for any kind of animal at a zoo, stable, or kennel.
It's definitly better for the animals because they are evolving to live in a world that is overpopulated by people. That is nature: evolve or go extinct.
Are you including ...( 3 weeks ago by Jayfurluvsya)
Are you including all the people who support the fashion industry for pets. Or maybe all the parents who dress up their children for halloween. How about Anne Gedes? Maybe she is a cruel artist because she makes babies look like flowers, bugs, or food. All the people who have spread her work must be witless fools as well. Women are pretty foolish also for wearing make-up and high heels. A woman has to do a lot of work fixing her appearance to meet standards set by social pressure.
Being in the same ...( 3 weeks ago by Jayfurluvsya)
Being in the same space with a living animal is entertainment whether it is the wild and at a distance or in an enclosure where the animals are trained to wander around people and kiss them. The point is the world is a better place with the animals existing. In the wild the animals are at natural risks, including a struggle for territory and poaching. There are climate factors that people probably can't change fast enough to save these same animals extinction.
The circus does not ...( 3 weeks ago by Jayfurluvsya)
The circus does not profit in any way from having sick, injured, or dead animals.
Activists profit from these facts of life.
What does ANY of ...( 2 weeks ago by journeyman47)
What does ANY of that have to do with circuses?
I am all for humans ...( 2 weeks ago by journeyman47)
I am all for humans rescueing their fellow animals, and having natural, open sanctuaries and preserves to protect them. I am against exploiting them for unnecessary entertainment and keeping them cooped up in the crappy little container trucks and pens that patcuvie films. Don`t try to tell me that the two are the same.
You are complaining ...( 2 weeks ago by Jayfurluvsya)
You are complaining about people being entertained by fashions, traditions, and skills. You think you're superior because you are judging other peoples interests based on misleading evidence.
The circus animals ...( 2 weeks ago by Jayfurluvsya)
The circus animals have a life full of enrichment from their exercise, hygene, practice and performance schedule. Transportation is scheduled to stop for animal care times. The pens they live in on site are spacious to allow their natural movements. Circus animals are ambassadors for their species showing people of all ages that they exist and can live in cooperation with people. Entertaining the public may inspire more action to continue flora and fauna existence.
How much does ...( 2 weeks ago by journeyman47)
How much does Ringling pay you to write their drivel? You live in a strange world where captivity and training of silly tricks of fellow animals is justified in the name of "embassadorship". Odd. I would think it strange if we captured the human ambassadors that came to visit and forced them to perform for us.
This is a volunteer ...( 2 weeks ago by Jayfurluvsya)
This is a volunteer position. Animals can't stand at a podium and make a speach because they are not human. I think it is strange that in our own country there continues to exist human slavery. The trafficing of women and children is at an all time high in the world. I think this is worse than the circus because there is no regulation for the safety and therefore no real protection for those involved. It is a true crime that children are sex slaves in this day in history.
Shut Up A--hole! ...( 1 week ago by gheldmann)
Shut Up A--hole! poor zdonks!
Since 1998 Ringling ...( 1 week ago by patcuvie)
Since 1998 Ringling has killed 4 baby elephants. One of the elephants, Kenny, was bleeding from his rectum and Gunther Gebel Williams and his son Mark, despite being told by the vet to not use Kenny in the show, used Kenny in the show. Kenny died later that night after passing a large amount of blood from his rectum. Ringling doesn't care if animals are sick or dying, the show must go on.
I was not there, I ...( 5 days ago by Jayfurluvsya)
I was not there, I don't know how much of this story is true. It may have been mostly fabricated to increase participation among groups who tell it to increase their own charitable profits. I have witnessed people with cameras antagonizing animals, and I have seen pictures that have been cropped to create scenes that have not actually occured. Activists are equally dishonest, and they actually profit from death. It is impossible for the circus to profit from an animal getting sick and dieing.
You represent ...( 5 days ago by patcuvie)
You represent yourself as knowing everything about the circus yet when the facts come out you tell us you don't know if it is true or not. You are a liar like Ringling and all Ringling apologists.
You are a liar. I ...( 4 days ago by Jayfurluvsya)
You are a liar. I never said I know everything, but I do know from experience that ringling is not out to torture and kill animals. I worked with other people to give the animals a safe and healthy existence protected from starvation, draught, and poachers. Activists are out to profit from carnage whether it is from natural causes, accidents, or legitimate murder. Gunther was dead before I ever worked with the circus, but he has anamazing reputation for training with empathy. No apologies here
Gunther trained ...( 4 days ago by patcuvie)
Gunther trained animals with whips and bullhooks not empathy. Fortunately when Gunther worked with Ringling the circus was not used to criticism and PAWS videotaped Gunther whipping and hitting the elephants. If this is what you consider empathy then it is no wonder you don't see the abuse of animals in the circus.
I have seen the ...( 4 days ago by Jayfurluvsya)
I have seen the videos of Gunther and I know this behavior is not normal with the modern trainers. I can tell stories about his relationships with animals but it would be hearsay. These tools are extensions for the handler to use the body language the animals understand. They understand many verbal ques, sometimes they need physical ques because they can't hear or are distracted. It is totally natural for animals to communicate and play by climbing, pushing, biting, kicking, or grooming.
First Gunther is ...( 4 days ago by patcuvie)
First Gunther is amazing and trains with empathy. Then Gunther's abuse is not normal with modern trainers. You will justify any cruelty. If you are around the elephants, "trainers" and handlers, often, then you have seen the elephants get hit, jabbed, hooked and maybe even beaten. Why don't you just be honest and admit that you don't think that inflicting pain on elephants, by hitting them is cruel.
No elephants were ...( 4 days ago by Jayfurluvsya)
No elephants were beaten when I was working there. Training techniques are evolving or adapting along with the animals and people. A person cannot inflict the same amount of pain on an elephant as an elephant can inflict on a person. An elephant can kill a person at any time, like a dog can bite at anytime. I have seen the handlers lead elephants the same as anybody would lead a dog. An elephant is equal to 100 big dogs. They enjoy the attention and want more.
Since the beginning ...( 4 days ago by Jayfurluvsya)
Since the beginning of the reproductive research at the CEC they have had 20 live births and there are more on the way. Professionals consider this number a large success and a path to avoid extinction.
As with anything alive accidents happen, natural causes happen, and occasional malicious acts happen. No elephant in ringling has died from a malicious act.
It's definitly better for the animals because they are evolving to live in a world that is overpopulated by people. That is nature: evolve or go extinct.
Activists profit from these facts of life.
As with anything alive accidents happen, natural causes happen, and occasional malicious acts happen. No elephant in ringling has died from a malicious act.