F-16 Falcon vs F-14 Tomcat Dogfight

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cribster123

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Tags: air airforce dogfight F-14 F-16 F14 F16 falcon fighter force jet navy tomcat USAF viper

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Air Force F16 fighter jet (technically an F16N---denoting it was sold to the Navy---but this aircraft is mainly used by the USAF rather than Navy) vs the F14 Navy Aircraft.
Instructors are piloting the F-16, students are in the F-14s. Enjoy =)

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lordjesse, i beg to ... ( 3 weeks ago by gittihawk)

lordjesse, i beg to differ. speed is not a deciding factor in a turn, but the aircraft's instantaneous and especially it's sustained turn rates. as far as dogfighting goes, the f-16's design, power-to-weight ratios, were bred for "dogfighting". the f14, despite her size is a capable dogfighter, but her role was fleet protection and cap. an experienced tomcat driver vs a rookie viper driver...i'd put my money on the tomcat driver. "knife fights" were a thing of the past when tomcat was born

oops...sorry, jesse ... ( 3 weeks ago by gittihawk)

oops...sorry, jesse. i thought you wrote "outturn", not outrun. agreed, the f14 is a capable dogfighter, but requires great skill to use her strengths while attempting to exploit an adversaries weaknesses.

The F-14 is NOT a ... ( 2 weeks ago by thelleht)

The F-14 is NOT a capable dogfighter. It is an interceptor. The advantages the F-14 had against an F-16 were it's ability to rapidly climb to alitude, get where it needed to go fast, detect enemies at long range with its powerful radar, and to engage them with its long range Phoenix missiles. But, a dogfighter it is not. It had a G limit of 7.5, compared to an F-16s 9.0. If it gets in a close range dogfight against a more agile aircraft like an F-16, then all things being equal, it will lose.

howdy, thelleht. " ... ( 2 weeks ago by gittihawk)

howdy, thelleht. "capable" doesn't mean superior. as i said, the tomcat was borne of an era where the value of a knife fight wasn't embraced. her role evolved to be primarily long-range fleet protection via the weapons system you highlight. but, she's nevertheless "capable" of surviving a knife fight, not that's she's a superior dogfighter, hence why she engaged in dissimilar air combat training against superior dogfighters. it's unlikely an f-14 would outclimb an f16 to 50,000 ft.

btw, thelleht. ... ( 2 weeks ago by gittihawk)

btw, thelleht. those images in the video where tomcat was in the pipper of the falcon, you see the tomcat's wings completed extended indicating very low energy. easy pickings for a viper driver. this supports your last paragraph. a tomcat can't survive such turning duels, unless the aggressor makes a fatal mistake. but, that's why usaf, navy, and marine pilots practiced dissimilar air combat.

Yeah. And I vote no ... ( 2 weeks ago by LordJesseD)

Yeah. And I vote no contest. Pitting the experienced Tomcat pilot against a not-too Viper pilot, I'd say the Tomcat wins. Just maybe.

boys and their toys ... ( 2 weeks ago by RO8ERT1)

boys and their toys .. :)

These people sound ... ( 2 weeks ago by Brolydog)

These people sound like they hate their jobs...

i think they are ... ( 2 weeks ago by gencobaser)

i think they are nervous. lol you might die

F-22 Raptor for the ... ( 2 weeks ago by jmwaweru)

F-22 Raptor for the win!

Your funny, one of ... ( 1 week ago by bryennnn)

Your funny, one of the hardest most burly things you can do in life is to be a fighter pilot. Thats not a video game, you can easily die in a training exercise.

All pilots of equal ... ( 1 week ago by KennethMixson)

All pilots of equal capability, F14 will win long range, F16 will win close range.

Stealth is a ... ( 1 week ago by bigrigjoel)

Stealth is a contradaction in terms. If it was true stealth then friendly radar would never pick its own aircraft up. The f-22 has low obserabable technology. And as far as the f-14 vs the f-22 it all depends. The tomcat can destroy the rapator and the converse is true. It depends on tatics and the masking the envirnments offers. In a fleet defense role, flying a CAP with AWACS, I would give the edge(slight) to the defenders. But close in, in a dogfight the advantage goes to the f-22.

Do those jets use ... ( 1 week ago by humexavier)

Do those jets use magnet gears in the front core of the engine that are levitational gears no friction just magnet force to move the gears into place.Allowing for engine turn thrust motion.And the computer graphing design controls the pitch of the thrust of all the nonfriction magnetic gear's motion.

The have certain ... ( 4 days ago by kosmo177)

The have certain equipemnt (radar relfecting antennae) which they turn on when they need to be recognized by friendlies. Otherwise they are invisible. It does not all depend, the F-14 would never know what hit him. Seriously, it doesn't stand a change, regardless of range. There was a large excercise some months back where 2 F-22's "killed" around 20 "enemies" IIRC. They F-22's were never detected.

Except that F-14s ... ( 3 days ago by PukaMan)

Except that F-14s are also equipped with a very powerful IRST which would pick up an F-22 easily, and passively (i.e. the Raptor wouldn't know it was being targetted)

Not while being ... ( 3 days ago by kosmo177)

Not while being outside the F-22's radar range though. And if you're in there you're dead before you know it. So again, no.

Except that the F- ... ( 3 days ago by PukaMan)

Except that the F-14's APG-71 and the F-22's APG-77 have about the same range, and the Tomcat's IRST matches that.

oop correction: The ... ( 3 days ago by PukaMan)

oop correction: The APG-71's range is about 220 miles, so it's almost twice that of the F-22's APG-77.

First of all I ... ( 3 days ago by kosmo177)

First of all I don't know where you got that the AN/APG-77 has a max range of around 100nm, I believe it is not published but it is reported to have a maximum detection range against a fighter sized target of over 180nm. And it's max range will be even higher. I also don't know where you got that the IRST has the same range as the AN/APG-71, it is reported to be able to ID a 747 at 100nm, for a fighter sized target it will be significantly less (maybe even half of that).

You should also ... ( 3 days ago by kosmo177)

You should also know that stealth does not mean only reduced radar signature, it also means reduced visual and heat signatures. And you should also know that the F-22 also uses an IRST derived from the AN/AAS-42.

Jane's states that ... ( 3 days ago by PukaMan)

Jane's states that it's current range is 120-125 miles, with expected upgrades increasing it to 250 miles eventually. Concerning the IRST, that was only concerning my initial statement of the AP-71 eqalling the APG-77's range. And I do believe it has more to do with the heat signature given off by the plane as opposed to the size.

As I said, stealth ... ( 2 days ago by kosmo177)

As I said, stealth also means reduced heat signature. As for Jane's, that is not an official source, but even so I couldn't find any estimate of the radar's range there. AFAIK maximum range of the AN/APG-77 has not been officially disclosed. 120nm is extremely low though, even the F-16 which is older and not so much BVR oriented has a radar with a 160nm max range.

pukaman, I love F- ... ( 17 hours ago by sergeant137)

pukaman, I love F-14s as much as anyone... but the F-22 is much better, and all things considered, the F-14 cost too much, and it was becoming obsolete, it had its day. The F-22 is a much better fighter, and anyone in their right mind knows that. Stop trying to argue it!

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