agnostic maybe? Just because Carl didnt believe in the christian god or any other god that we have brought forth through myth doesnt mean he didnt wonder about an energy force that we cant yet conceptualize. By saying he was an atheist, this means he outright concluded that he knew there was no such thing as a creator, designer, etc. I just dont ever remember him declaring this.
"We wouldn't have ...( 1 month ago by cayetanoluis)
"We wouldn't have laws and rules if it weren't for religion because without it, people wouldn't know what was right or wrong."
And yet, a disproportionately small percentage of the US prison population are atheists. The idea that humans need to believe in a celestial dictator just to keep them from raping and killing is surely one of the most repugnant (and demonstrably false) conceits. Perhaps YOU don't know the difference between right and wrong without God, but don't please don't generalise.
In fairness, I ...( 1 month ago by cayetanoluis)
In fairness, I think that Sagan was an atheist in the sense that he didn't believe in mystical elements to the universe, but, having read his book "The Demon Haunted World", I think he mentioned that he wasn't entirely dismissive of the idea of a god of some sort - though he didn't actually subscribe to the idea that there was, given a lack of evidence for one. Sagan was an atheist in the same sense that we're all atheists when it comes to Zeus.
I gotcha...
Makes ...( 1 month ago by erfreaka25)
I gotcha...
Makes you wonder if the word "god" should just be thrown out, and a new term for the word. There are too many preconceived notions and personal dogmatic associations with it anymore. religion should have never been taken any more seriously then say a poem. I think the problem is reading things in terms of prose instead of poetry. I think there is nothing wrong with looking to something to inspire you. Think about our new myths that we are well aware are just myths, say starwars-
"The idea that ...( 1 month ago by erfreaka25)
"The idea that humans need to believe in a celestial dictator just to keep them from raping and killing is surely one of the most repugnant (and demonstrably false) conceits"
well said.
you got that right( 1 month ago by HailZeon57)
you got that right
"And yet, a ...( 1 month ago by HailZeon57)
"And yet, a disproportionately small percentage of the US prison population are atheists"
lol, that's because only 2% of the US is atheist. That's a no brainer. So are you saying that it is right to rape and kill? You know, if evolution really did happen, (which it didn't) then we wouldn't have thoughts of love and kindness to other people because random chemical reactions would make up our attitudes. What about the good ol' "Survival of the fittest"? does this mean we can leave someone dead....
*continued*.....in ...( 1 month ago by HailZeon57)
*continued*.....in the street because he wasn't "fit" enough to survive and that he is too unfortunate to not survive? This twisted logic is surely one of the most repugnant (and demonstrably false) conceits. Sound familiar? and by the way, the number of people in prison along with the number that are Christian doesn't prove a thing. How do we know they are really Christians and not Christians in name? also, everyone sins and commits wrong, even you prideful atheists. (Pride is a sin btw) see?
Ummmm...no. The ...( 1 month ago by cayetanoluis)
Ummmm...no. The number of atheists in America is significantly north of 2 percent. Obviously you have no idea what "disproportionate" means. It's a measure that pertains to expectations from a population, not just relative to the sample you're looking at. Learn some statistics.
You're obviously a brain-dead moron. NOWHERE did I even remotely hint that rape and murder was right. Nor did I imply that we should follow evolution as a set of moral principles, because that's not what it is.
That's just fucking ...( 1 month ago by cayetanoluis)
That's just fucking stupid. Evolution is a scientific theory about how life diversified, not instructions about how we should behave. Learn the difference, you ignorant twit. I
I'm sorry that the only reason you don't rape and steal is because you're afraid of being punished by God. Real nice "morality" you have there. Anyway, learn some basic science, and then get back to us. By then you should hopefully sound like less of a retard. "Pride is a sin btw". In that case, face the facts.
but it goes hand in ...( 1 month ago by HailZeon57)
but it goes hand in hand with evolution. I has to do with evolution. Oh, so who have you raped or killed today? if no one, what keeps you from doing that?
Instead of insulting me, which you atheists love to do, (btw, I dare you to not insult me. I know it's hard, because you are so much better than everyone else, but try to do it) answer those questions.
then where do we ...( 1 month ago by HailZeon57)
then where do we model our moral principles from, Professor? How did these laws evolve? did a neanderthal, one day, make up these rules that we have today?
Jesus Christ, ...( 1 month ago by cayetanoluis)
Jesus Christ, you're clueless. First off, we didn't evolve from Neanderthals, so get your facts straight (of course, you won't). Where did we get our morality from? From our evolution - social, biological and cultural. We have innate, as well as learned, propensities to treat one another well. You don't need to believe in Sky-Daddy to know that living in a society where everyone rapes and steals is a bad thing.
No, it doesn't go " ...( 1 month ago by cayetanoluis)
No, it doesn't go "hand in hand", genius. What keeps me from raping? Well, human empathy, for one thing (is that an alien concept to you? Apparently you'd like others to think so). Secondly, a realisation that soceity couldn't function if I could do anything to anyone. No thought of God whatsoever, and no need to.
Okay. Why is it ...( 1 month ago by HailZeon57)
Okay. Why is it wrong to cause human suffering? In naturalistic, evolutionary terms, what is a human that it is wrong to make one suffer?
Of course it is. If ...( 1 month ago by madiam4u)
Of course it is. If everyone started killing and raping then human society would collapse and our race would tend to extinction. This probably happened to millions of other species in the past and they became extinct. The ones who survived did NOT kill their own species, at least to some degree. Since humans kill their species one of the least, we could survive, evolve, interact, and create a society based on those principles. 'Morality' and 'conscience'are therefore also products of evolution.
All religions are ...( 1 month ago by madiam4u)
All religions are equally stupid. They're all a pack of lies, including Christianity. If you think christianity is right, then WHY is the world a better place today than it was in the dark ages?
PS- If you don't believe in evolution, do you really believe the world was made in seven days, and god appeared as a flaming bush and all that?
"...evolutionary ...( 1 month ago by cayetanoluis)
"...evolutionary terms". That's the wrong question. Like I said, our morality COMES FROM our evolution, but evolution isn't in and of itself a moral principle. It's a process. It can explain how we attained our morality, but it can't tell us WHAT is wrong and right, and nor does it have to. There's a huge difference. By the way, saying that "Causing suffering is wrong because God says it is" doesn't actually add any new understanding to ethics. You're just stating the problem differently.
To be fair, I think ...( 1 month ago by cayetanoluis)
To be fair, I think you're thinking in group selection terms: that evolution happens "for the good of the species". While I think there probably is still something to be said for group selection, we don't really need to use it to account for altruism. Altruism can have evolved through within-group selection. As Dawkins says, selfishness at the gene level can manifest itself as altruism at the organismal level.
Thou shall not call ...( 1 month ago by clerlic)
Thou shall not call the Flying Spaghetti Monster a lie :D
"all religions are ...( 1 month ago by erfreaka25)
"all religions are stupid"
Im not religious by any means. besides, I know how to read things in poetry instead of prose. not to dog you madiam by any means, I suggest you understand the mythologies of EVERY religion before you make your conclusion. besides, maybe religion was once meant for an artistic expression about ourselves. myths can prove useful to inspire. we still do it now with our new movies of new myths. agian though, look at it as poetry, instead of prose and you might find meaning
Wow, you're not ...( 1 month ago by Serai3)
Wow, you're not paying attention to Carl at all, are you? It's a great blow to humanity that he died so soon. Perhaps if he were still around, this ugly divisiveness between religion and science would not be so evident. He understood the religious impulse and had compassion for it, even if he did not share the views of religious people. More should learn from his wisdom.
The Greeks said, ...( 3 weeks ago by debnadaviebna)
The Greeks said, when facts/numbers speak, the gods sit silent. I believe the same should be true to when Carl Sagan speaks.
You're obviously a brain-dead moron. NOWHERE did I even remotely hint that rape and murder was right. Nor did I imply that we should follow evolution as a set of moral principles, because that's not what it is.
I'm sorry that the only reason you don't rape and steal is because you're afraid of being punished by God. Real nice "morality" you have there. Anyway, learn some basic science, and then get back to us. By then you should hopefully sound like less of a retard. "Pride is a sin btw". In that case, face the facts.
PS- If you don't believe in evolution, do you really believe the world was made in seven days, and god appeared as a flaming bush and all that?